Planet9
Ranging Bloyster
Former Power Poster[A:0]
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Post by Planet9 on Dec 6, 2008 20:53:24 GMT -5
Well, I guess because if you make 10 10 day machines and 1 100 day machines, the 10 day machines more have more power then the 10 day machine.
But, if you make something like a 45 day machine, it is a bit uneven.
45 * 0.1 = 4.5 extra days, and we really should have to calculate half a day of strength.
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Post by Water Dumple on Dec 6, 2008 20:55:31 GMT -5
How is it not good enough? If you make a 20 day machine and a 60 day machine, you're 5 days off a project slot. However, if you had a 10% bonus, then you would save more and more time off project slots the longer the machine, which can make it unbalanced compared to the other non-day bonus ones like Scavenger. If you think about it in another way, it's actually fair. IF it is 10%: If I make a 100-day machine, I get 10 extra days of strength off it. If I make 10 10-day machines, I get 1 extra day of strength off it. There are 10 machines, which amounts to 10 extra days total, exactly breaking even. IF it is 5 extra days: If I make a 100-day machine, I get 5 extra days of strength off it. If I make 10 10-day machines, I get 5 days of strength off each, I have 10, so that is 50 extra days in total, compared to a measly 5 of the 100-day machine. See, it balances out that way. But if this works, total strength for a machine should still only be 400 days. That's unlikely to ever happen, though. Edit: Rydon does bring up a good point, but remember that ten 10-day vehicles will not defeat a 100-day one. And neither would ten 11-day ones. Edit Edit: I might not be online for the next day or two. Sorry, there's a bunch of stuff going on at my house...
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Petrosian
Giant Breadbug
The Fishman
Posts: 1,560
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Post by Petrosian on Dec 6, 2008 22:47:43 GMT -5
If you think about it in another way, it's actually fair. IF it is 10%: If I make a 100-day machine, I get 10 extra days of strength off it. If I make 10 10-day machines, I get 1 extra day of strength off it. There are 10 machines, which amounts to 10 extra days total, exactly breaking even. IF it is 5 extra days: If I make a 100-day machine, I get 5 extra days of strength off it. If I make 10 10-day machines, I get 5 days of strength off each, I have 10, so that is 50 extra days in total, compared to a measly 5 of the 100-day machine. See, it balances out that way. But if this works, total strength for a machine should still only be 400 days. That's unlikely to ever happen, though. Edit: Rydon does bring up a good point, but remember that ten 10-day vehicles will not defeat a 100-day one. And neither would ten 11-day ones. Edit Edit: I might not be online for the next day or two. Sorry, there's a bunch of stuff going on at my house... Building 2 50-day machines to counter a 100-day machine should not be a viable strategy, though.
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Post by Water Dumple on Dec 6, 2008 23:19:04 GMT -5
See, it balances out that way. But if this works, total strength for a machine should still only be 400 days. That's unlikely to ever happen, though. Edit: Rydon does bring up a good point, but remember that ten 10-day vehicles will not defeat a 100-day one. And neither would ten 11-day ones. Edit Edit: I might not be online for the next day or two. Sorry, there's a bunch of stuff going on at my house... Building 2 50-day machines to counter a 100-day machine should not be a viable strategy, though. Well, sure, as mentioned before, those 50-day machines will not be as good, even combined, as the 100-day one. Unless it was something like 2 50-day Battleships against a 100-day Frigate, but that's obvious.
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Waffle-SS
Gatling Groink
The Administrator[A:0]
This means WAR, MAGGOTS!
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Post by Waffle-SS on Dec 6, 2008 23:32:41 GMT -5
Wouldn't those 50-dayers be frigates and the 100 day one be a battleship? The 100-day one sould outclass them both nomatter what kind of ship it is supposed to be, unless the type of ammo it uses isn't effective against the smaller ships.
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Post by Water Dumple on Dec 7, 2008 0:11:06 GMT -5
...unless the type of ammo it uses isn't effective against the smaller ships. That's why. In all of the examples I've used until now, I've just been assuming that these units are equally effective against each other. In this case, Battleships are in general great on smaller ships like Frigates, which can't do much in return. But you'd have to know what types of weapons those ships carry to understand that--And I guess not many people systematically go to Wikipedia and look at the descriptions of all the ships in the U.S. Navy like I do. (Yes, I am a Navy geek. Or an aspiring one.) So, it's probably expected that folks wouldn't know that, I should have clarified. If this was something like tank vs. tank or fighter vs. fighter, then the 100-day one would definitely win.
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Hachi
Waterwraith
Captain Oliby[A:0]
I am Oliby, Businessman of Legends. Fear my accounting!
Posts: 2,355
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Post by Hachi on Dec 7, 2008 0:13:38 GMT -5
I believe WD is using an example from BWs. Battleship are meant to take on other naval ships but Frigate are support, not built to take on other ships.
I guess we could use this special bonus for each army, but it should be something that takes a while to acquire. It's going to make it hard for newcomers to get all of this at once.
EDIT:
I think the following rules could be removed from the Wildlife section and place into a new section that has rules that apply to all army.
15) To start off, you may only have one or two base defenses. More, such as walls and traps, must be built by themselves with individual projects. One project for one gate. One project for one bomb-rock cannon. You could, if you wanted, fill all of your slots with the same projects if you want multiple copies of them. This usually applies to base defenses. Also, don’t forget that defenses cost resources to build! Usually it’s just one resource unit per defense.
16) Because you must build them individually, base defenses have quite a lot of armor, meaning that they aren't easily destroyed--If you attack someone, remember this! Building a factory to automatically make something every certain number of days is allowed. However, you can’t automatically get resources without getting a mine installed at the Universal Store.
17) Making a project to upgrade a defense, machine, or species of creature is perfectly allowed. Example: “Upgrade Careening Dirigibugs to Zooming Dirigibugs.” With this in mind, you cannot start with Zooming Dirigibugs, but must undergo an upgrade project to get them.
18) Start with a Weapons Storage, Resource Storage, Ammunition Storage, and Barracks. These are fairly generic buildings that just give you the ability to hold the appropriate thing without having it cluttered around on the floor. You can rebuild a destroyed one in a 4-Day project.
19) Although you have an unlimited supply of war machine and defense ammo, it takes a 20+ day research project before you can use a certain ammo. (Example: “Research Mini Missiles: 25 Days”.) Furthermore, although your base has an infinite amount of ammo that it can resupply your stuff with, your machines can only hold so much at a time. This just means that your lone Bomber can’t destroy an entire player just because he doesn’t have any anti-air.
20) Currency is Petals. Depending on what you own and what projects you have going, you can sell items and such for Petals. With this, you can establish trade with people and actually get something else from what they own, or maybe gain some of the elusive Titanium if they have any. There are some limits on trading, though, primarily having to do with the sea. See the Advanced Rules about that.
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Waffle-SS
Gatling Groink
The Administrator[A:0]
This means WAR, MAGGOTS!
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Post by Waffle-SS on Dec 7, 2008 3:58:29 GMT -5
...unless the type of ammo it uses isn't effective against the smaller ships. That's why. In all of the examples I've used until now, I've just been assuming that these units are equally effective against each other. In this case, Battleships are in general great on smaller ships like Frigates, which can't do much in return. But you'd have to know what types of weapons those ships carry to understand that--And I guess not many people systematically go to Wikipedia and look at the descriptions of all the ships in the U.S. Navy like I do. (Yes, I am a Navy geek. Or an aspiring one.) So, it's probably expected that folks wouldn't know that, I should have clarified. If this was something like tank vs. tank or fighter vs. fighter, then the 100-day one would definitely win. Naval Geek eh? I must say I don't know a whole lot about ships. More of a tank geek mahself. Also, I agree with Hachi on every point.
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Planet9
Ranging Bloyster
Former Power Poster[A:0]
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Post by Planet9 on Dec 7, 2008 8:48:27 GMT -5
Edit: Rydon does bring up a good point, but remember that ten 10-day vehicles will not defeat a 100-day one. And neither would ten 11-day ones. I know, but I'm saying with the 5 day bonus 10 10 day vehicles would probably be better then the 1 100 day one.
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Post by Water Dumple on Dec 7, 2008 11:36:58 GMT -5
Edit: Rydon does bring up a good point, but remember that ten 10-day vehicles will not defeat a 100-day one. And neither would ten 11-day ones. I know, but I'm saying with the 5 day bonus 10 10 day vehicles would probably be better then the 1 100 day one. Okay, but...it shouldn't be that way. Ten 10-day machines should not often be able to defeat a 100-day one, as I explained earlier.
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Post by norbertk19 on Dec 7, 2008 12:33:34 GMT -5
Hoq about we scrap the idea all together? The rules are complicated enough as is. That and I think this is the last thing stopping us from starting the new version.
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Post by THE GODDAMN BATMAN on Dec 7, 2008 12:34:58 GMT -5
Hoq about we scrap the idea all together? The rules are complicated enough as is. That and I think this is the last thing stopping us from starting the new version. I agree
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Post by norbertk19 on Dec 7, 2008 12:44:48 GMT -5
You see in the first version of the wars I could have joined about 2 months earlier. The only reason I didn't was that because the rules were so dang confusing. Now most new members would be scared of because of the sheer multitude of rules. The only reason we're fine with it because to all of us it's just a few changes while to a new comer it's an all new set of rules to memorize.
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Makajawan
Gatling Groink
Supreme Commander Awesome[A:1]
Everything he touches turns to ice, but he warms your heart.
Posts: 813
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Post by Makajawan on Dec 7, 2008 13:54:15 GMT -5
The bonuses are quite confusing. We really ought to just go on without them; they aren't critical to the function of the game and are more trouble than they're worth.
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Hachi
Waterwraith
Captain Oliby[A:0]
I am Oliby, Businessman of Legends. Fear my accounting!
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Post by Hachi on Dec 7, 2008 14:44:47 GMT -5
If the old rules stopped Nobertk, someone who is very competent, for two months, maybe they are too complicated. I would rather not add the bonuses at this time.
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