|
Pikmin
Aug 30, 2009 23:09:23 GMT -5
Post by Rainbow Pikmin on Aug 30, 2009 23:09:23 GMT -5
Hi, I was just wondering, cause I talked to WD about it for a little while, how much I could do with Pikmin. I like Pikmin, so I was wanting to do an army of just Pikmin, with them having biological powers, but I thought asking here would be better, since I could get more responses.
|
|
|
Pikmin
Aug 31, 2009 17:02:34 GMT -5
Post by Water Dumple on Aug 31, 2009 17:02:34 GMT -5
You might want to just hang tight right now, we're working on mechanics for the next version in the topic you'll find on the news flicker.
Some biological powers are allowed, such as canonical things like the Fiery Blowhog's flames or Anode Dweevils electricity but I think the next version might be a bit more clear on what you can and can't do; main thing is, I wanted to make differences between Special and Ordinary troops more apparent; fire-breathing and the like is for Special troops, or only extremely weak versions for Ordinaries. For Ordinaries to become better, they'd need weapons; an army of nothing but Pikmin simply wouldn't work. Pikmin with anti-tank weapons could handle land vehicles, but they would need something ridiculous to sink a warship.
|
|
|
Pikmin
Aug 31, 2009 21:02:14 GMT -5
Post by Rainbow Pikmin on Aug 31, 2009 21:02:14 GMT -5
I guess the only issue I have is that it's limited by canon, is all. Mechanically, there wouldn't be a difference between flame from a Fiery Blowhog's or from a super Red Pikmin who was Special, yet only one is allowed to exist because of the Pikmin games. I'm just thinking ahead, is all. I'll see what happens.
|
|
Meowzer
Waterwraith
The Picker of the 'Min
Pffffffffff
Posts: 2,249
|
Pikmin
Sept 1, 2009 14:20:42 GMT -5
Post by Meowzer on Sept 1, 2009 14:20:42 GMT -5
This is merloo, right?
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 1, 2009 14:41:24 GMT -5
Post by Rainbow Pikmin on Sept 1, 2009 14:41:24 GMT -5
Yeah.
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 1, 2009 16:09:13 GMT -5
Post by Water Dumple on Sept 1, 2009 16:09:13 GMT -5
I guess the only issue I have is that it's limited by canon, is all. Mechanically, there wouldn't be a difference between flame from a Fiery Blowhog's or from a super Red Pikmin who was Special, yet only one is allowed to exist because of the Pikmin games. I'm just thinking ahead, is all. I'll see what happens. Problem is, you're looking at the flame alone. Sure, you could technically produce a flame identical to what Fiery Blowhogs use, but if a Pikmin used it it would be a lot different because Pikmin are not Fiery Blowhogs. Pikmin are mobile, smaller targets, can use weapons/interact with things more easily, get in small places that Blowhogs can't, have a decent bit of strength for their size... Also, the game is built so that you can be weak in one area and stronger in another, but going COMPLETELY without something, such as base defenses or Special troops, wouldn't work well.
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 1, 2009 18:33:56 GMT -5
Post by tinfoilman on Sept 1, 2009 18:33:56 GMT -5
There's no rule against having Pikmin as specials. Mitites are recommend to be ordinaries, but I had them as specials with my Sheargrub army, and it actually worked in my favour; they were considered more powerful than normal and the effect was great. Of course, he couldn't have Red Pikmin as ordinaries and specials, but if he had different colours between them, I think it wold be fine.
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 1, 2009 19:34:51 GMT -5
Post by Water Dumple on Sept 1, 2009 19:34:51 GMT -5
There's no rule against having Pikmin as specials. Mitites are recommend to be ordinaries, but I had them as specials with my Sheargrub army, and it actually worked in my favour; they were considered more powerful than normal and the effect was great. Of course, he couldn't have Red Pikmin as ordinaries and specials, but if he had different colours between them, I think it wold be fine. Well yes, I wasn't trying to say that you couldn't have Pikmin as specials.
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 1, 2009 22:21:30 GMT -5
Post by Rainbow Pikmin on Sept 1, 2009 22:21:30 GMT -5
I know. That was my plan. Special Pikmin and Normal Pikmin. Special Pikmin would have the more... unorthodox abilities. Normal Pikmin... not really sure just yet. Probably tactics and other such things.
|
|
Bread & Butter
Fiery Bulblax
Leader of the Breakfast Battalion[A:0]
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay
Posts: 733
|
Pikmin
Sept 2, 2009 8:33:18 GMT -5
Post by Bread & Butter on Sept 2, 2009 8:33:18 GMT -5
Well my team is comprised completly of Breadbug, mini ones that attack as pikmin, some that breathe fire, etc. and no one seemed to have any problems with that. If people are worried that a fire-breathing pikmin is too fast to be compared equal as a blowhog, just but in the description that the pikmin's belly is full of the gell that gets ignited and this gell is quite heavy which slows it down, like a purple pikmin or something. You're allowed to make new classes and such. Just make them within reason.
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 2, 2009 12:52:52 GMT -5
Post by Rainbow Pikmin on Sept 2, 2009 12:52:52 GMT -5
What I'd likely do is make it an upgrade.
For instance, you could upgrade a Fiery Blowhog so that it makes more efficient use of it's fire powers, which cuts down on the amount of fuel it needs, which allows it to move faster.
I figure something like that would be allowed, hence why, even if it isn't as fast as a regular Pikmin, it would still be fine.
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 2, 2009 16:45:47 GMT -5
Post by Water Dumple on Sept 2, 2009 16:45:47 GMT -5
Well my team is comprised completly of Breadbug, mini ones that attack as pikmin, some that breathe fire, etc. and no one seemed to have any problems with that. That's because you weren't attacked with naval units or aircraft...
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 2, 2009 18:35:22 GMT -5
Post by Rainbow Pikmin on Sept 2, 2009 18:35:22 GMT -5
Well, for me, if I did my all Pikmin team, I'd use Blue Pikmin and Green Pikmin for naval/air battles, respectively, as well as use ranged Pikmin to help deal with them. I'd have a well-rounded variety of Pikmin, 10 Normal, 10 Special (possibly more), so it's not like it wouldn't work.
The thing I like about Pikmin is their ability to adapt (and their cute). You have Red Pikmin, Yellow Pikmin, Blue Pikmin, Green Pikmin, White Pikmin, and Purple Pikmin right off the bat (I'd add a minimum of four to this, a maximum of seven), and all of them are Pikmin, but their specialized Pikmin, each of them excelling in some areas, yet lacking in others. Their very specialized units, yet at the same time, are very powerful in their specialties.
What I'm asking is if I could have Special Pikmin with unorthodox abilities, similar to how Soul had unusual abilities. Of course, I need to figure out what I can do with Normal Pikmin, but we need more details for that anyways.
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 2, 2009 18:58:15 GMT -5
Post by Water Dumple on Sept 2, 2009 18:58:15 GMT -5
This may have to get down to the specifics. But the way it's been and probably will be, is that ships sink to ballistics and what real ships go down to. Same with aircraft, vehicles, and buildings. Troops are a different matter because they're fictional in this, but you could basically think about it in WWII style--That was in fact how I first saw the game, because that makes the thing critically different from SMKW. In SMKW, there are machines of multiple varieties, but you don't really need anything dedicated to take them down. That should be apparent because four of the five groups are all focused on one unit of one kind or another!
So, one way in which I sought to make this different from SMKW was by making tactics, and strategy the key to victory. In SMKW, it's creativity. That means in this game, it's not easy to main one unit type and in order to keep the game separate from SMKW and thus more attractive to people bored of it, I think that'll be more important this version. I've gotten a lot of the information I need to make the ruleset, just a few issues still need refinement. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm not trying to give competition to SMKW, but I think people will want to play both rather than just one if the two games are a good bit different.
I'm considering making non-canon biological powers very limited in favor of making weapons, because of the above and because weapons are already at a disadvantage--You've got to spend resources on them. But of course, having a largely weapon-only upgrade system pushes more strategic/tactical depth; there's a good reason to attack a Weapons Storage if it's usually got goods in it, or try to target enemy troops' weapons. With biological upgrades, it's not the same at all. Obviously, some things would be allowed--Such as, say, increasing Snitchbug carrying capacity by 2, allowing them to grab 2 Pikmin in each arm.
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 2, 2009 19:05:57 GMT -5
Post by Rainbow Pikmin on Sept 2, 2009 19:05:57 GMT -5
I'm perfectly fine spending resources for special powers.
But that's the thing, what is different about something with the canon ability to do something and something that normally can't, if they have the same stats? If they act and behave for all intents and purposes the same, the only difference is appearance, and I just prefer the appearance of one as opposed to the other. It's normal to restrict abilities, but I don't see why canon abilities have to be limited to only certain troops, when in battle, there wouldn't be any difference.
Or even if there is, a Red Pikmin that breathes fire would likely have less power, but could move faster, as opposed to the Blowhog which is slower, yet more powerful. It being larger could be made up for by the fact that the Pikmin also has limited uses of his power, compared to the Blowhog.
Or the Pikmin could increase in size so that it can use it's power more, or I could spend resources so that the Pikmin is able to use it's power better, allowing it to consume less of it's overall energy, yet still be the same size, allowing for something that does what the Fiery Blowhog does yet is smaller. However, I spend time and resources to do so.
It can be balanced, creative, and tactical. It's not an impossibility. As for weapons, this is for Special Troops. Normal troops, well, who knows what I'd do.
The main thing is that you're setting up a false dilemma by saying it can't be creative and tactical. I don't mean to argue, I'm just confused why it has to be one or the other.
|
|