|
Pikmin
Sept 2, 2009 23:43:37 GMT -5
Post by Water Dumple on Sept 2, 2009 23:43:37 GMT -5
I'm perfectly fine spending resources for special powers. But that's the thing, what is different about something with the canon ability to do something and something that normally can't, if they have the same stats? If they act and behave for all intents and purposes the same, the only difference is appearance, and I just prefer the appearance of one as opposed to the other. It's normal to restrict abilities, but I don't see why canon abilities have to be limited to only certain troops, when in battle, there wouldn't be any difference. Or even if there is, a Red Pikmin that breathes fire would likely have less power, but could move faster, as opposed to the Blowhog which is slower, yet more powerful. It being larger could be made up for by the fact that the Pikmin also has limited uses of his power, compared to the Blowhog. Or the Pikmin could increase in size so that it can use it's power more, or I could spend resources so that the Pikmin is able to use it's power better, allowing it to consume less of it's overall energy, yet still be the same size, allowing for something that does what the Fiery Blowhog does yet is smaller. However, I spend time and resources to do so. It can be balanced, creative, and tactical. It's not an impossibility. As for weapons, this is for Special Troops. Normal troops, well, who knows what I'd do. The main thing is that you're setting up a false dilemma by saying it can't be creative and tactical. I don't mean to argue, I'm just confused why it has to be one or the other. The point is that you can't solo an army of troops, ships, aircraft, and defenses with just Pikmin. It just won't work here, although if you brought that to SMKW you could probably do that. (You can try, but people will catch on and bring all the anti-infantry business they have--That's a strategy that will win.) That's one of the big differences between the two games I mentioned. So far, troop upgrades have not consumed resources and they're going to be very time-consuming because it's too much of a pain to note which ones have been upgraded which way and all that--There's just a troop type that's been upgraded, and nothing else. With weapons, it's simpler to do because you just make a number of weapons with 1-3 resources for each one, keep them in the Weapons Storage, and then take a certain number/equip them when you move out to fight. Since upgrades can cover so much at a time, they're time-consuming for a smaller per-troop bonus than weapons are as per-troop bonuses. The difference is that weapons can cover more offensive things, such as anti-vehicle weapons when most troop types don't start with them. Upgrades, I feel in order to make the difference distinct, should be for more supportive things. For example, you could upgrade Green Pikmin with better wings so they could fly higher, as normally they're a bit restricted. Or some sneaky sort of Breadbugs with camouflage so that if they stood next to a wall they would start to blend in; I know Hachi did some funky things earlier, although I don't really remember what all he did. But people are really pushing the new version in a new direction, and upgrades/weapons have been one of the foggiest areas when the game was first made: I'm trying to clear it up now and make the differences between SMKW and Pikmin Wars more obvious, so that people will want to play both games and not just one (At least, not just one because they're so similar that there's no point in playing both). I'm not gonna push this on for pages, especially with the proximity of the new version's coming. you could try a Pikmin army in Nintendo Wars if you want to try going ulti-Pikmin. I bet that could work out pretty well there.
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 3, 2009 2:35:22 GMT -5
Post by Rainbow Pikmin on Sept 3, 2009 2:35:22 GMT -5
I suppose I'll try it out here, and show you what I mean. I feel that what I mean and what you mean aren't getting across, as you seem to be talking about something entirely different, regardless of the fact that we're both talking about a pure Pikmin army. I never said no machines/weapons, by pure Pikmin, I mean only Pikmin for troops, doesn't mean the other things won't happen. Mechanically, they'll be similar, just have different fluff to represent it.
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 3, 2009 16:11:35 GMT -5
Post by Water Dumple on Sept 3, 2009 16:11:35 GMT -5
I suppose I'll try it out here, and show you what I mean. I feel that what I mean and what you mean aren't getting across, as you seem to be talking about something entirely different, regardless of the fact that we're both talking about a pure Pikmin army. I never said no machines/weapons, by pure Pikmin, I mean only Pikmin for troops, doesn't mean the other things won't happen. Mechanically, they'll be similar, just have different fluff to represent it. Oh, I see, I didn't know you meant Pikmin only for troops. Actually, to that extent, a while back we had a Hocotatian class that could only use Pikmin as troops; basically, the idea was that the Wildlife would be based more on versatility and troops, and the Hocotatian would have weaker troops but better machines and tech. With that in mind, I'd say it's definitely possible to have a Pikmin troops-only group; however, be warned that it'll be extremely difficult to pull off since we're going back to Wildlifes-only.
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 3, 2009 16:40:38 GMT -5
Post by Rainbow Pikmin on Sept 3, 2009 16:40:38 GMT -5
Oh, I'm not worried about that.
Okay, let me explain, in a bit more detail, what I intend to do. To the best of my knowledge, you produce machines and weapons, and many other things. What I want to do is have my machines and weapons be organic. They'll still consume resources, and as far as mechanics go, they should function the same as they would for anyone else, but they'll just look different.
For instance, say I want to make a pistol. Assuming factories exist (of a sort) I'd simply have a giant plant which consumes iron to make ironwood, a variety of plant with the strength and durability of iron, and then make guns out of that. This is sort of what I meant when I said I'd get weapons and armor for my Pikmin, they'd use organic (yet, for all intents and purposes, metal) weapons. Similar things for machines. It would function like it would for any other group though.
As for using a solely Pikmin army, no machines, weapons, armor, etc. Yeah... that wouldn't work, and I know that. However, I will have plenty of things I can do, especially when I plan things out. It's going to be very interesting to see what I can do.
While the gunplant thing seems unfair, I do want to clarify that in the end, it shoudn't be any different from a normal weapon. People can still steal, use, or destroy it, it will still be stored in a weapon storage, still a machine you can blow up to stop it, won't deal anymore damage or any less damage than a normal gun, etc. It's just the explanation I'd have for why they can do this.
It's based on the fact that by introducing organic material into Onions, you get more Pikmin. By introducing metal into special types of Onions, you get Pikminy Weapons/Armor. Sound alright?
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 3, 2009 18:07:30 GMT -5
Post by Water Dumple on Sept 3, 2009 18:07:30 GMT -5
I'll think about it. Main thing is actually what you and I talked about earlier; how in SMKW unit types do not have clear definitions and instead are mainly only different based on concentration of power and the way you get them. That works just fine for that game, I'd just prefer it to be different here. Having completely organic buildings and weapons and vehicles seems...rather weird, because I imagine it would make them be weak to the same things Pikmin are weak to; that starts to blur the definitions of these things, which is what I'm trying to avoid.
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 3, 2009 18:29:24 GMT -5
Post by Rainbow Pikmin on Sept 3, 2009 18:29:24 GMT -5
I intend to make my units definite. If you noticed in my earlier Shaman groups, each of them had a set role. I just didn't use them often enough, so it was hard to tell. I will do this here, as well.
They're organic, but that's only in fluff. They would still have the same properties of the metal used to make them.
|
|
Bread & Butter
Fiery Bulblax
Leader of the Breakfast Battalion[A:0]
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay
Posts: 733
|
Pikmin
Sept 3, 2009 18:31:55 GMT -5
Post by Bread & Butter on Sept 3, 2009 18:31:55 GMT -5
That's because you weren't attacked with naval units or aircraft... Well I had specially trained ones that piloted my own units and such. Plus, right when I was waging a full-on attack on Rhydon, everyone stopped coming on and v.1 was dead in a week! so saddening...
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 3, 2009 19:27:40 GMT -5
Post by Water Dumple on Sept 3, 2009 19:27:40 GMT -5
That's because you weren't attacked with naval units or aircraft... Well I had specially trained ones that piloted my own units and such. Plus, right when I was waging a full-on attack on Rhydon, everyone stopped coming on and v.1 was dead in a week! so saddening... Yeah, you and Rydon were kicking each other all over the place, and then the thing just blew up suddenly. Couldn't really figure it out myself, although one problem was the horrible ammunition system we had at that point for moderators writing battles.
|
|
|
Pikmin
Sept 3, 2009 21:04:56 GMT -5
Post by Rainbow Pikmin on Sept 3, 2009 21:04:56 GMT -5
So, does what I'm saying make sense? I hope so, since I really like the idea.
|
|
Bread & Butter
Fiery Bulblax
Leader of the Breakfast Battalion[A:0]
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay
Posts: 733
|
Pikmin
Sept 4, 2009 12:42:50 GMT -5
Post by Bread & Butter on Sept 4, 2009 12:42:50 GMT -5
Well I had specially trained ones that piloted my own units and such. Plus, right when I was waging a full-on attack on Rhydon, everyone stopped coming on and v.1 was dead in a week! so saddening... Yeah, you and Rydon were kicking each other all over the place, and then the thing just blew up suddenly. Couldn't really figure it out myself, although one problem was the horrible ammunition system we had at that point for moderators writing battles. That's true. Since none of the Mods were on, it hardly went anywhere. Guess they didn't want to be on to have to write the battles. Then again people do have important things to do besides do pikmin-related things...
|
|